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Get me my Axes... better make that a flamethrower
Sparky
sparkindarkness

So commentary on the Elmo scandal seems to give me 2 choices:

1) Gay men are wicked sex predators with a "tradition" and "culture" of preying on boys and older gay men abusing and exploiting young men and boys is the norm.

 Or

 2) Evil gay boys who post pictures of themselves and ZOMG look at them! They are just after his money, they weren't abused they so wanted it etc etc victim blame victim blame. Bonus points if the same person playing this game

Y'know what? There is a thing about gay men being falsely accused of sexual abuse. It happens when hate groups are playing the "won't someone think of the children" game. It happens when fools and bigots decide that one abuser means we're all abusers (see point one). And it happens when violent straight arseholes raise the "gay panic" defence to try and justify how they attacked, beat and murdered us. Those are the contexts where the oh-so-common false accusations happen.

Young men - who are gay themselves -  coming forward saying they were abused and exploited while under age or borderline? That is not the context.

I'm really done with both of these. I'm sick of the presentation of all gay men as sex predators. Sick of the idea that we're dangerous and that one arsehole's evil actions are somehow representative of all of us

 And I'm sick of the idea that gay men and gay boys are unrapeable and always want sex, always consent, cannot be abused or exploited and are generally "asking for it." I'm sick of these sentiments coming from people who would scream bloody murder - and rightly so - if anyone engaged in such vile victim blaming in another context.

No, we're not all sex predators. Yes, we can be abused and we can be raped. How damn hard is this to understand? And then people wonder why I only talk about abuse and rape among groups that consist of only gay men.


From the little I've read, all of the men who've gone public have stated that they had a consensual sexual encounter with Clash while they were under the age of 18. Also, these men and Clash were connected via gay dating sites, meaning that the men who were under 18 at the time, were interested in a sexual encounter with an older man.

As a lawyer, I'm sure you're aware that age of consent laws vary greatly by jurisdiction, gender, age of the other party, sexual orientation, etc. We don't know in which jurisdiction each of these encounters occurred, not the exact age of the minor at the time. So, from a legal perspective, it's difficult to make blanket statements in this case.

While I would question the character of men who engage in sex with anyone (boys or girls) under the age of consent, there are boys/girls who look much older than their biological age. Given the fact that Clash was not in an authority position (employer, clergy, coach, teacher, etc.) at the time, there does not seem to be any evidence of any coercive actions involved.

Given Clash's involvement in children's television, I think he exhibited an extreme lack of judgement. As a gay man who was 15/16 at one time, I can understand boys lying about their age in order to have sex with older men. That's why when I say 21 in my rear view mirror, I was not interested in men who had also not passed 21 and made sure that they were old enough.

As you say, this will get a lot of press by the RR about how gay men prey on poor helpless and defenseless "straight" boys. Of course, they fail to point the light at those older men (20-40s) who have sex with minor girls and in some cases marry them. All legal if the parents give approval or they get married.

Legally, here the age of consent is 16 and I wouldn't change that

I'm less concerned with legal ramifications than I am basic predatory behaviour here. Not that May/December relationships can't work - but if a man in his 40s seeks out and finds 3 guys in their teens who are jailbait/borderline/barely legal then that's a pretty strong pattern of predatory behaviour, even if it's legal. Beyond lack of judgement, the mere fact Clash, in his 40s, was looking for such a young, vulnerable section for dating. Even without over coersion, it's skeevy

That's why when I say 21 in my rear view mirror, I was not interested in men who had also not passed 21 and made sure that they were old enough.

Exactly. Which is a reasonable, sensible and non-predatory way to go about things because most of us recognise the vulnerable nature of teenagers and how fraught such relationships can be

The press - and beyond - will always label us as sex predators and it's always so so so so much worse than the straight population

Hands over the flamethrower and loads up own shotgun

Less talk, more flames and booms.

As a straight female - I'm with this guy.

< loads shotgun > Let's go.

Bisexual woman on board with this strategy.


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